We've had many questions about the overcrowding at Frost MS. Specifically, we have been asked why we would advocate leaving an overcrowded school (Annandale HS) to go to an overcrowded school (Frost MS). The answer is that there is a difference in the type of overcrowding. There are two different types of capacity: program capacity and design capacity. Program capacity is dependent upon the programs that are offered by a school; design capacity is what the building is able to handle, programs or not. The program capacity of Frost MS is 864, but the design capacity of Frost is 1,062. Based upon the building capacity alone, Frost MS is not overcrowded and could easily accommodate the children who would be moved under Option 2. The children at Frost MS move around easily in the hallways and cafeteria and are able to get to their classrooms on time with minimal disruption. Contrast this with the current overcrowding at Annandale, where every ounce of space in the building itself and the modular is used every day. The classrooms at Annandale HS are used for every period, and teachers do not have their own classroom, but have to move around to use available space. This is why the school board is examining Annandale HS to reduce the overcrowding.
At its current program capacity, Frost MS does not have sufficient capacity to fill its high school completely, and there are no local middle schools available to supply additional capacity to Woodson HS. This is why there is a planned expansion of Frost MS, and why Frost MS has been identified by the CIP as “uniquely positioned” to be renovated. Again, contrast to Annandale HS, which has been configured to its optimal space and has been renovated. Modulars are in use, and there is no available way to create additional design capacity.
Option 2 includes sending AAP children from North Springfield ES (including children to be moved from Bren Mar Park ES) to Frost MS for the AAP Center, despite the fact that North Springfield ES feeds into Holmes MS, which is proposed to receive an AAP Center. These children could be reunited with the children from their base school and still receive AAP services by being sent to Holmes MS. We also question whether AAP children from Annandale Terrace ES and Braddock ES could be sent to the AAP Center at Holmes MS in that Holmes MS is closer to Annandale Terrace ES and Braddock ES. Also, we note that Ravensworth ES is currently an AAP split feeder, with some students attending Frost MS and some attending Lake Braddock SS, which also has an AAP Center. FCPS Staff has indicated that “[t]he final staff recommendation may include reassigning AAP students from a portion of Ravensworth Elementary School to [the] AAP Center at Lake Braddock Middle School, making the school a single feeder assignment for the AAP Center assignment at the middle school level." AAP reassignments to Holmes MS and Lake Braddock SS would serve three purposes: use capacity at those schools, reunite children with their base schools, and relieve some technical overcrowding in the AAP Center at Frost.
With regard to Woodson HS, program capacity utilization percentage at Woodson HS in the 2012-2013 school year is 100.3%, but drops to 95.3% by the 2016-2017 school year. Woodson HS program capacity is 2,339, and its design capacity is 2,356 (a difference of only 17 students). While we want to adjust schools for overcrowding, we can also object to schools being so severely under-crowded that they are negatively impacted. Option 3 would hurt Woodson HS by reducing its program capacity to 83.1% in the 2016-2017 school year. It does not provide adequate county-wide balance for the schools. Option 2 would serve to under-crowd Annandale HS while filling excess capacity at Woodson HS, providing better county-wide balance.
We are looking at long-term solutions to the overcrowding at Annandale HS rather than band-aids. In the long-term, Option 2, including the move of WFES to Frost MS and Woodson HS, is a more balanced solution to the overcrowding.
Who is VOICE? How many people do you represent? Are you just WFES-Poe-Annandale parents who would prefer that your kids attend Woodson? Without knowing your interests, I cannot weigh the credibility of your opinions.
ReplyDeleteIn Frost Overcrowding, The Voice made the argument that the overcrowding in Frost was different from that of AHS. I think that is not the case. That was not our experience.
ReplyDeleteOur child attended Frost and is now at Annandale HS. Class size at Frost was often in the 30-35 range, turning classes into mini-lecture halls, not the best environment for discussion and questions. We saw this first-hand. I don't know why, but that has not been the case at AHS - the largest class our child is in has 25 students.
Lunch was not easy, as The Voice maintained. It was crowded and our child's lunch was 10:15 some days and 12:20 the others. I think the times have improved but I worry they would have to revert to the old schedule to accommodate more children. This is not the end of the world, but it certainly is not desirable.
There are pluses and minuses with each option - there are plenty of legitimate reasons to have different opinions, but to say "Frost MS is not overcrowded and could easily accommodate the children" is simply not accurate - at least in our experience as parents at both schools.
As an aside: The Voice makes the observation of Annandale, "where every ounce of space in the building itself and the modular is used every day. The classrooms at Annandale HS are used for every period."
That is meant to be a negative, but I think that's great. We should be using our facilities to their fullest. I don't see using a classroom every period is a bad thing - it's keeping my child's class size down.
Your statements regarding program versus physical plant capacity are interesting, but need further explanation. You state that Annandale HS is physical plant limited, but Frost MS is just program limited. So what determines program capacity? Is it a staffing issue? That seems unlikely. Why is the county using a building capacity figure for one school, but a program capacity number for another? If you are calling into question the County's building capacity figures, you're going to need some concrete data regarding the term 'program capacity' to sway the School Board. Please provide it.
ReplyDeleteHere's a novel idea. Instead of sending WFES children to WFES for 7th grade, why not send them to Holmes for 7-8, then Poe for 9-8 and then Annandale for 10-12. In this manner they won't have to "deal with 4 schools in 5 years". Instead, they can be like everyone else in cluster 3 who has K-5 and only have 4 schools over 6 years. What a concept.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comment. On a person-by-person basis, you will find both positive and negative experiences at every school. While we are sorry to hear that yours and your child’s experiences at Frost were negative, the particular experiences you relate do not necessarily equate to school-wide “overcrowding.” Class size at the middle and high school levels, unlike at the elementary schools, can be driven by a number of factors, most importantly student interest in the class. As such, you will see a wide range of class sizes at the middle and high school level, from the teens all the way to the thirties. Further, individual class size, even at the ES level, is not necessarily a good proxy for school-wide overcrowding. See, for instance, Westgate ES in Falls Church, which is filled to 127% of capacity, yet which has an average class size of 21, below the FCPS ES average of 23. As to lunchroom availability, Frost actually does a good job by county standards, having the capacity to get through lunch in only three periods, the earliest of which is currently 11:00 (and remember, the school day starts there at 7:00). Contrast this with Lake Braddock Middle, which takes five periods, some which start as early as 9:55 AM, to get all of its students fed. (See FCPS.edu School Profiles)
ReplyDeleteBy the numbers, while Frost is technically overcrowded using “program capacity” metrics, it is not overcrowded by others. Indeed, by some metrics, such as target population to adequately populate its High School (Woodson), Frost has too few students. (See the introductory video being shown by FCPS Facilities Staff at the ongoing community meetings, as well as our most recent post—“Frost Overcrowding” in this regard). To fully evaluate the ability of Frost to accommodate the WFES students, four factors must be considered: 1) Frost has the physical capacity to house 1060 students. (See FCPS Facilities Enrollment Dashboard). 2) Frost’s population is currently trending downward. 3) Frost’s program capacity for future years is currently understated in the “Option 2” statistics due to not counting the modulars that Facilities staff has publicly stated (most recently at the Edison community meeting) it will install at Frost should Option 2 be implemented. Frost is likely to receive the half of the modular that is scheduled to be removed from AHS or else a similar capacity in mobile units. The capacity to be provided by these units, more than enough to handle any incoming WFES students, MUST BE counted just as it is counted for AHS capacity if we are to adequately and fairly evaluate the overcrowding and proposed solutions. 4) The current option 2 involves moving AAP students from N Springfield and Bren Mar Park to Frost. These students currently attend the AAP center at Glasgow, which will be moved to Holmes. By a simple amendment to Option 2, these students could easily attend Holmes, which is just as close as Frost, has capacity, and is the “natural” middle school for the rest of the NS/BMP student body. Per FCPS staff at this week’s Edison community meeting moving the NS/BMP AAP students to Holmes as opposed to Frost would further reduce the population at Frost by “over 30” students under “Option 2.” Taken together, these factors and numbers show that Frost could easily absorb the WFES students.
Finally, as to using “every ounce of space”— there is a difference between “using our facilities to the fullest” and using them beyond capacity, as has happened at AHS where teachers often do not even have their own classrooms.
To respond to mbarzilai's comment:
ReplyDeleteWe are very active parents, just like yourself, who live in neighborhoods to the east and west of Wakefield Chapel Road in Annandale, who are highly concerned about the decisions that our school board is going to make in 8-10 weeks about the educational experience that our children, and other children included in this study, will have in the Fairfax County Public School system. Many of us have been following this issue for more than a year and are intimately involved in the details of the study. We have learned through our experiences what works and what does not work in communicating with the school board, and we are happy to share this with others so that we can ensure a great educational experience for our children. We have found that rational, logical feedback works best with the school board, rather than emotional responses.
However, this process, as you can imagine, can be highly emotionally charged. Therefore we prefer some anonymity so as not to pit “neighbor against neighbor” because most people have very strong opinions about this topic. We value stability, and a kind community spirit, and we truly want what is in the best educational interests of our children. Every neighbor is entitled to their opinion, and should express that opinion directly to all 12 voting school board members. We also believe that people should use respect when addressing their neighbors and community on this issue. People are entitled to have different opinions and to express them.
To WC Resident: We are unable to post your recent comment because it violates the terms of service of the site (personal attacks or insults are prohibited). We would be happy to approve a revised comment that removes the reference to a specific individual.
ReplyDeleteThe Voice wrote "AHS where teachers often do not even have their own classrooms."
ReplyDeleteQuite the contrary:
Dan Parris, our Cluster III Asst Superintendent, said teachers at AHS do have their own classrooms; they teach in a single room. They may have to leave on their free period for the room to be used for something else, but they do not have to move room to room to teach. It would be nice if they could sit in that same room in their off-time, but it is not the end of the world if they can't.
On Crowding at Frost:
You can talk about "program capacity" and "physical plant capacity" and other "metrics" all you want; we were at Frost 2 years - it was crowded, plain and simple... and to parse words and say otherwise is sounding desperate, at the very least.
Has the author of that reply had a child there? We were there. We saw it. It was real.
If modulars are part of the solution at Frost, why not count them at AHS (they are not being counted now), where they keep the class size down to great numbers? - a max of 25 students per class in our experience (we regularly had 30-35 per class at Frost).
As for "educational experiences," I can't imagine a better environment than Annandale, where our children are offered a buffet of ideas, friends and cultures, in addition to the incredible IB Program. The opportunity for growth is really unique.